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Author Topic: Can a woman wear black beaded chain (mangal sutra)? Please help!!!  (Read 49115 times) Average Rating: 0
mamqasmi
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2010, 02:02:07 PM »

Jazak Allah u khair Rizwan bhai for the references given 
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2010, 02:02:07 PM »

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monu.mohsin
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2010, 06:08:57 PM »

Nice ending with a Fatwa ...Jazkallah Khair
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« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2010, 06:08:57 PM »

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mushfique
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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2010, 10:05:20 PM »

Firstly thanks to Imran bhai for removing the lock on this topic. Soon Fatwa would be coming from Bareiley sharif. In the mean time, can anyone also post information about what Makrooh means its types and ruling with definitions please. Specially brother Rizwan Maniyar bhai.
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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2010, 11:23:21 PM »


LET ME QUOTE AN EXAMPLE WHICH WILL MAKE IT EASY 2 UNDERSTAND


"Towards the end of the 19th Century, the Europeans omitted from dictionaries and Encyclopedias the introductory phrase about the necktie being a symbol of the cross ... A glance of Encyclopedias printed before 1898 will confirm this point. In another report, it is said that the practice of the necktie started on the insistence of the Pope in the year 1790 and that by 1850 all Christian nations had accepted and implemented this order of the Pope.”

Now when we have found tie to be a religious symbol of Christians then according to third described type of Tashabbuh-e-Luzoomi it falls into a category of Haram and Mamn’u and it is stated in Fatawa Razaviyyah Shareef:

“Prayer offered wearing unlawful garments is Makrooh-e-Tehreemi i.e. it is subjected to be repeated (Wajib-ul-E’aada)” (Fatawa Razaviyyah, Vol 23, Page 101)


Brother Rizwan bhai has clearly mentioned the meaning of

"Makrooh-e-Tehreemi i.e. it is subjected to be repeated (Wajib-ul-E’aada)"

and Fatawa Razaviyyah means from Bareilly Shariff.

I hope its Crystal Clear now and there is no room for discussion left.
I hope the matter is very clear and closed now...

but if you still want to go on and on and on then there is no END to it...

I would request the Admin to Lock this topic.
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mushfique
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2010, 07:39:25 AM »


It is stated in Fatawa Razaviyyah:

“There is an order of impermissibility for Tashabbuh-e-Luzoomi if there is no justification over it. For e.g. English Coat, Hat, Pant Shirt and etc. Thought these are not the religious symbols of Christians and Jews or the Kuffar but still refraining from them is Wajib and to wear these garments is a sin” (Fatawa Razaviyyah, Vol 24, Page 532)

It is also stated in Fatawa Razaviyyah with reference to AlHadeeqatun Nadiyyah:

“To tie Zinnar, or to wear hat of Christians and jews without a valid purpose is Kufr without a doubt” (Hadeeqatun Nadiyyah, Vol 2, Page 230 – Fatawa Razaviyyah, Vol 14, Page 277)

Furthermore, It is in Gamzul ‘Uyoon:

“One who took any (religious) practice of Kuffar as appreciable, with the consensus of mashaikh became Kafir” (Gamzul ‘Uyoon, Vol 1, Page 295)

Imam Ahmed Rida adds in Fatawa Razaviyyah:

“If it is not Kufr then definitely its FISQ when its without a purpose of Sharee’ah. No one will accept it but one who’s Eman is weak. Surely when the phenomenon of Love for ALLAH and Hatred for ALLAH took stability in heart then every act of Auliya ALLAH seems affectionate and every act of enemies of ALLAH seems unpleasant” (Fatawa Razaviyyah, Vol 14, Page 277)


Would like to quote something about PANT. As per the above matter it seems like wearing even PANT is a SIN. And if knowing that its a SIN still if person wears it, he may become what?
Now see how another Fatwa goes against this fatwa:

To Perform Namaaz in Pants
(Darul Uloom Amjadia, India, Printed in Monthly Kanzul Iman-India)

Q: How is it to do imamat and pray Namaaz in Pants?
A: In the past only British used to wear pants. One who wore pants used to be considered a British. But now Muslims, Hindus and other nations wear pants excessively. Therefore now the pants are not a dress of any particular nation. If a dress, which is not particular to a nation or used to be particular to a nation but it's now a common dress will not be called a specific dress of any nation. Even though that dress was invented by a nation. Alahazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Muhaddise Barelvi Aleh Rehmat-o-Riawan writes in Fatawa-e-Rizvia in Part 9 on page 91 that "Only that resemblance is prohibited or Makrooh in which a person's intention is to resemble or that thing is a way of Bud Mazhab or holds some kind of state against Shariat. In the absence of these mentioned conditions definitely there is no reason for prohibition" In the same book it is mentioned under Mawahibe Ludnyah Hazrat Allama Qastalani Rehamatullah Aleh says about the dress of Jews,*1. Therefore if the pants are loose enough that it will not be cumbersome to perform Namaaz, it is allowed to perform Namaaz wearing them. But they should not be so long that they will cover the bones of ankles otherwise Namaaz will be Makrooh. If it's because of pride it is Makrooh-e-Threemi otherwise Makrooh-e-Tanzeehi. Strict Muslims in our area still dislike wearing pants and consider them improper. Therefore for such an important post of imamat wearing pants is not proper. Syedna Alahazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Muhaddise Barelvi Aleh Rehmat-o-Riawan writes,*2 (Fatawa-e-Rizvia, part 9 page 38) Allah Tala knows the best.

Please clarify.......Fatwa vs Fatwa and still some more to come.......
We should know that there are groups of muslims who are still wearing mangalsutra not with the intention as that they are following any other religion. So our Mufti should give fatwa keeping this in mind. Also my humble request to Imran Rahet saheb urf Gulame Khwaja saheb that please also get a Fatwa stating what will be the muslims called who are wearing mangalsutra knowing that it would be gunah to do so because the next fatwa coming from bareily sharif, as i think will be straight on the target.

Mushfique
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2010, 09:00:47 AM »

Brother, well, it was interesting to read this debate about mangalsutra and bhindhis...as far as I know all moslem married women coming from good families in Hyderaabad do wear the black and gold.. all of them come from families which have women educated in Islamic tradition. So one thing we cannot rule out or deny is the rule of the land..meaning the time-bound tradition and customes where family prestige and image are concerned. They cannot be removed so simply.

Secondly,the hindus have no such custom of bindhi or mangalsutra during the vedic times, here again it was after Manu's entry when women became an object of censure. Many things have happened over time that have gone hand in hand with the deterioration of faith and confidence in the almighty. All moslems pray but they have no idea what total faith can do to these frail customes. It brings about a courage to throw all unnecessary things out of one's system. No amount of force or preaching can make this possible.. my humble opinion ofcourse.
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2010, 10:06:53 AM »

JAZAK ALLAHU KHAIR
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mushfique
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2010, 10:18:30 AM »

Brother, well, it was interesting to read this debate about mangalsutra and bhindhis...as far as I know all moslem married women coming from good families in Hyderaabad do wear the black and gold.. all of them come from families which have women educated in Islamic tradition. So one thing we cannot rule out or deny is the rule of the land..meaning the time-bound tradition and customes where family prestige and image are concerned. They cannot be removed so simply.

Secondly,the hindus have no such custom of bindhi or mangalsutra during the vedic times, here again it was after Manu's entry when women became an object of censure. Many things have happened over time that have gone hand in hand with the deterioration of faith and confidence in the almighty. All moslems pray but they have no idea what total faith can do to these frail customes. It brings about a courage to throw all unnecessary things out of one's system. No amount of force or preaching can make this possible.. my humble opinion ofcourse.
Very true and well said. This is exactly what i am trying to say to these people. Mangalsutra is no where to be found in the main books of the HINDUS. It was later on invented as a custom. May Allah help the innocent muslims.
Mushfique
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2010, 10:58:44 AM »

Dear Brothers and Sisters, I have been reading this thread from quite some time now, Even after being proven with the help of Hadees and Fatwas some adamant people are not ready to admit that Mangalsutra is NOT Allowed in ISLAM.

Its not that Whole of India wears Mangalsutra, Its only prevalent in South India and some parts of Maharashtra. A Kashmiri Indian Muslim or a Ajmeri Indian Muslim does not Wear a Mangalsutra and even the Educated Muslims from Hyderabad and Chennai are not following these culture and they ask their women not to wear this Mangalsutra.

If you say its a Indian culture and Not a Religious requirement then ask any HINDU MARRIED WOMEN to remove the Mangalsutra or Not wear it or for that matter break it. She will slap you on your face.

Brother there is a BIG Difference between a Pant and a Mangalsutra. Pant is not held Sacred in ANY Religion as of today. But Mangalsutra is. Mangalsutra still is very very sacred to Hindus. Black beads signifies SHIVA and i am sure being a man of understanding you know what SHIVA Stands for. And Gold signifies Shakti Energy to a women.

Moreover a Fatwaa is an Opinion of a Islamic Scholar not a Rule. So if you dont like that Scholar you can go ahead and take another Fatwa from another Scholar which suits your Needs and Customs.

It is just your Over Smartness and Extra Intelligence and not to mention your EGO that is Stopping you from accepting the TRUTH where as Truth stands out clear in the Discussion.

Now I have seen again In India there is a Custom of Sindoor also. Ladki ki Maang Bharne ka bhi Dastur hai. Now you will say this is also Not in Hindu Scriptures so is Allowed and tommorrow we will have muslim marraiges in Mandirs and Churches.

Please stop confusing the innocent Muslims.
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2010, 12:08:09 PM »

Walikum Assalaam Wa Rehamtullahe Wa Barkathu. to all brothers and sister.

Following this Debate from quite some time now, made me Do a little research on Hindu Scriptures..
Till now we have not Completely Understood our scriptures and we are doing Research on HINDU Scriptures feels a little odd..
But for the sake of Argument and to safe our Innocent Muslim Brothers and Sisters from this Sinful Act we did some research and here are the Results.

As brother on the forum has said
Quote
Mangalsutra is no where to be found in the main books of the HINDUS. It was later on invented...

Some other lady said..

Secondly,the hindus have no such custom of bindhi or mangalsutra during the vedic times,


These allegations are Absolutely False and Completely Baseless...

According to a Testimony published by HINDU COUNCIL UK.
Hindu Scriptures such as Sushruta Samhita (Chikitsa Sthana Chapter 19).  and Hindu Ayurvedic scriptures,
At marriage the bride and a married woman are considered the personification of the Hindu goddess of fortune Lakshmi, this transformation being achieved by the sixteen beautification processes known as Shodash Shringar.

Some of the different components of Shodash (Solah) Shringar are;
Bindi
symbolising the bride's suhaag (resolve to the marital relationship). It is usually a circular red dot of vermillion powder, however, nowadays bindis are usually more elaborate and the self-adhesive variety.
Sindoor
vermillion powder symbolises suhaag and is applied in the parting of the hair.
Maangteeka
a pendulum like ornament generally made of gold; it is worn in the parting of the hair.
Anjana: kohl
the fourth step in Solah Shringar is the application of kaajal or kohl on the edges of the upper and lower eyelids.
**Nath
A nose ring/pin or stud is worn. It can be made of gold, pearl and diamond. Nose pins if worn are not usually removed by Hindus and they are a symbol of a married woman similar to mangal sutra, sindoor and bindi.
Mangal Sutra
the sacred marriage vows are thought to be imbibed in the wedding necklace (mangal sutra) made of gold.  It may be embellished with diamonds, black pearls or stones.


and many others....

Further more..
During the Grah Shanti (shantikarman/sainth) which is a ceremony conducted by a Hindu Priest to spiritually prepare the bride for marriage.  At that point a sacred mantra from the oldest Hindu scripture, the Rigveda (Section 10, chapter 85 verse 33) is recited and beckons the assembled married women (suhaagans) to come forth and adorn the bride in the aforementioned method (Solah Shringar), thereby corroborating the religious sanction and antiquity of these practices.  Moreover, during the wedding ceremony the bride’s hair parting is anointed with vermillion powder as described earlier and reminded by the Priest through the Vedic mantras he recites, that the wearing of the Mangal Sutra (marriage necklace, sindoor, nath etc.) ensures a harmonious marriage.  There are countless references to these practices in the Hindu scriptures such as the Padma Puran, however, for brevity has not been listed in this testimony.

Taken from Another Hindu Source...

Mangalsutra...
A married Hindu woman is recognized by symbols like – Mangalsutra, Toe Rings, Kumkum, a Nose Ring – and Mangalsutra is the most important for any married woman because it remains around her neck until the death of her husband. The word Mangalsutra means an auspicious thread or cord. It is made of black beads and gold; the black beads of Mangalsutra are supposed to protect the marriage from evil eyes.

According to Hindu scriptures, Mangalsutra plays a major role in Hindu woman’s life. She is considered married once her husband puts this sacred thread around her neck. This tradition runs through generations after generations; but these days, the trend has been changed. Earlier, women prefer long thread, and now they prefer short one.


Yet Another Source...
What is Mangalsutra?
The word 'mangalsutra' is derived from the two words, mangal meaning holy or auspicious and sutra meaning thread. It is a sacred necklace that the groom ties around the bride's neck on the day of the wedding in a ceremony called Mangalya dharanam (meaning - wearing the auspicious), thereby giving her the status of his wife and life mate. Thereafter, the wife wears the mangalsutra all her life or till the time the husband is alive as a sign of their marriage, mutual love and goodwill, understanding and faithful commitment to one.


Quote
We should know that there are groups of muslims who are still wearing mangalsutra not with the intention as that they are following any other religion. So our Mufti should give fatwa keeping this in mind.

Brother agar aap yeh mante ho k ( there are groups of muslims who are still wearing mangalsutra not with the intention as that they are following any other religion)
To fir wo log Mangalsutra Shadi k pehle kyun nahi pehante agar unki intension dusre religion ko follow karne ki nahi hai to fir to unhe mangalsutra shadi k pehle aur pati ki death k bad bhi pehnna chayen agar wo sirf  use ek jewellery k jaisa pehan rahe hain ti shadi k pehle aur widow ko bhi mangal sutra pehanna chayen
Agar aap sirf shadi k bad mangalsutra pehan rahe ho to iska matlab to yehi hua k aap dusre religion ko follow kar rahe ho jis ki apna islam permission nahi deta

Fir to intension k hisab se Muslims sindoor bhi laga sakte hai k hamari niyat to sirf make up karne ki thi...

Agar Mufti sahab har individual ke hisaab se Fatwa dene lage tab to bahot hi achi baat hogi...
Mufti sahab sahi aur galat ko dekh kar Fatwaa dete hain, Hadees aur Quran ki roshni me Fatwaa dete hain..
Naa ki aapke wishes aur traditions ko dekh kar...




Hence it is Proved that Mangalsutra is VERY MUCH PRESENT in HINDU Scriptures and is an Integral part of Hindu Culture.
No Hindu Marriage can take place without a Mangal Sutra.

Also it is proved by Fatwas that wearing Mangal sutra for a Muslim women is a Sin.

Hence i would request the Honorable, Intelligent and Smart Members of this Forum to Stop this Debate NOW and
DO NOT CONFUSE the Innocent MUSLIMS.

Would like to request the Admin to lock this topic as all what had to be said is already said and its for the people to Follow or Not to Follow...


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masood
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2010, 12:56:07 PM »

Assalaamualycum Wa Rehamtullahe Wa Barkathu.

Very Interesting Topic but the Management thinks that this topic has reached its saturation point and any more debate on this Topic in Not Required...

Still if Brother Rizwan wants to explain the Meaning of Makrooh E Tehrimi (In detail) to brother Mushfique.
or If Brother Mushfique has some other doubts regarding Fatwa against Fatwa please start another Topic in Question and Answer section.

This Topic Stands Closed.

Thank you all for Participation.
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« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2010, 08:49:45 AM »

I just spoke with my Imaam he said "Shariat mangal sutra ki ijazat nahi deti, agar yeh zewar ki taur pe pehne toh theek hai, lekin naa pehne toh behter hai kyuki yeh non muslims ki nakal hai"

"Shariat doesnt allow wearing mangal sutra with the belief it carries, if its worn as a jewellary then its ok, but still one should refrain coz it wil be like imitating non muslims"

I hope its clear now......
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2010, 08:54:31 PM »

Fresh Fatwaa From Bareilly Shariff- Dargah Alaa Hazrat  (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anhu)


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« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2010, 09:37:34 AM »

Allah ka ehsaan hai ke HAQ baat samne aayi. Mangalsutra pehnene mein koi harj nahi FATWA FROM BAREILEY SHARIF!!!! agar che usmein kisi DEWI DEWTA ki taswir NAA HO TO!!!! Alhumdolillahe......
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« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2010, 10:11:32 AM »

Fresh Fatwaa From Bareilly Shariff- Dargah Alaa Hazrat  (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anhu)

Following is in roman from the Fatwa of Barielly Sharif

Question:
KIA FARMATAY HAIN ULAMA E DEEN MASLA E ZAIL MAIN K MANGAL SUTR JO HINDOYUN KA RIWAJ HAY AYA WOH MUSLIM KHAWATEEN MAIN BHE USKA CHALAN HAY - AISA RIWAJ DURUST HAY YA NAHEN - QURAN O SUNNAT KI ROSHNI MAIN HUKUM SADIR FARMAAIN. (from Haji Mushtaq Hussain - Bareilly Shairf)

Answer:
ZAIWAR (Jwellery) KI QISM SAY HAAR HOTA HAY USI KO HINDU MANGAL SUTR KEHTAY HAIN - AGAR USMAIN KISI DEWI DEWTA KI TASWEER HOTO MUSLIM KHWATEEN PAR ISKA PEHENNA (wear) NA JA'IZ O HARAAM HAY - AGAR BA NIYYAT HAY HO TO KUFR HAY AUR USMAIN JAB KISI DEWI DEWTA KI TASWEER NA HO TO USKAY PEHENNAY MAIN KOYEE HARJ NAHEN - YEH DEEGAR ZAIWRAAT KI MISL HAY - Wallahi Taala Aalaam

JABKAY YEH MUSHRIKA AURTON K SAATH KHAAS NA HO (Kutub Mohammad Ayub Alam Rizwi Kashanganjwi) JABKAY MUSLIM O MUSHRIKA DONON USKO PEHENTI HOON (Wallahi Markazi Dar ul Ufta Number 82 - Sodagraan Bareilly Shairf)




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