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Author Topic: Tarawih Prayers in church-- Allowed or Disallowed?  (Read 13694 times) Average Rating: 0
Rehana Raza Khan
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2010, 06:28:12 PM »

mujhe to ptahi nai chalrha hai kaun kya kehna chahta hai yahan par

Arsh bhai kya aap keh rahe hain k aap aisi jagah par nmaaz padskte hain jahan tasveerein hon.
aur jahan hindu aur isaaayion k budh rakhe hon..?

qasmi bhai noorie bhai ne itne ache se samjha diya hai fir bhi aapki samaj me kyon nai aarha hai?
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2010, 06:28:12 PM »

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ghaws786
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 11:25:26 PM »

As-salamu-alaikum all,

After reading all the posts, after my last post, I understand that Some of my brothers do not understand my concern and are MISAPPLYING and MIXING one issue with another one. I think I should explain my question with an example.

Suppose a person drink wine. So drinking wine is Haraam or PROHIBITED in sharia of Islam. So when he read namaaz after drinking wine.. the namaaz which he reads should also falls under PROHIBITION OR HARAAM catagory. This is very simple. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT READING NAMAAZ  ITSELF IS PROHIBITED.

THIS IS THE ACTUAL PROBLEM.

What I asked in my last post is based on a reference of brother Sayyed Noorie from Dur-e Mukhtaar Ma'a Rad-dul Mukhtaar Version-2 Page-502. He quoted

It is Makrooh Tahreemi to pray wearing clothes that have images of living things printed on them: wearing such clothes is prohibited even when not praying.

Now here I am not arguing on the position of namaaz being Makrohoh Tahrimi. I am arguing on the portion of "wearing such clothes is prohibited". When wearing such clothes is PROHIBITED OR HARAAM then HOW CAN THE NAMMAZ FALL UNDER MAKROOH TEHREEMI. According to this reference IT SHOULD ALSO FALL UNDER PROHIBITED OR HARAAM category because the person who is reading Namaaz is wearing a prohibited Shirt.

That is Why I said that there is a mistake in the reference; and I asked my brother to provide another reference. I understand that since they cannot find any other reference; then they started accusations and posting the defination of Makroohe Tehrimi and Makroohe Tanzeehi; which I never disagreed at all.

That is why I always say; PLEASE READ AND WRITE CAREFULLY WHAT YOU ARE POSTING ; BECAUSE THIS IS AFFECTING THE LIVES AND THOUGHTS OF PEOPLE READING THE POSTS.

I hope I am clear this time and my beloved brother like Sayyed Noorie and Ajmal should refrain from accusing others. Brother whatever you think about me do not affect me at all; because this is unimportant. The act of acquiring knowledge is more important; Evan if it comes from your enemy.

This is my personal request to everyone who are reading my posts; that please read my Posts carefully. I am not here to challenge anyone OR to prove that I am the MOST INTELLIGENT PERSON on the forum as being projected about me. (May Allah( Subhana wa taaala) protect me from this this kind of Takabbur. Aameen) BUT I am here to discuss and understand the concepts clearly; IF THE BASE CONCEPTS ARE CLEAR, THEN IT IS VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND THE PERSON DO NOT MAKE MISTAKES OF MISAPPLICATION AND MISINTERPRETATION.

I hope the disagreement should be resolved after this.

Wassalam,
YOur BROTHER IN ISLAM
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 11:25:26 PM »

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arsh1226
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2010, 09:04:34 AM »

dear all,

hope the confusion is clear,

everyone has thier opinion and we arehere to learn not to accuse ,

kindly see what brother rodgrigues is written ,

we ahle sunnat need to be a example even when we debate , definitly our understanding differ .

this forum is a like home for us , if we accuse each other , what will be the newcomer THINK OF the  forum

This   FORUM IS NAMED AFTER BUZOOR GA NE DIN,,,,,,,,, WE NEED ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND.


please please for Allah (st) and HUZOORE kayianths sake dont accuse , if you dislike the person opinion KINDLY ARGUE IN A ANY POLITE MANNER.

I AM HERE NOT TO MAKE IMPRESSION OR TAKKAABUR, BUT TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE IN ALL POSSIBLE WAYS ,


 

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EK SAJDA HOAN JHO KHUBUL HOJAYE , DEEDARAY MUSTAFA HOAN AUR MAUT AJAYE.
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2010, 12:30:25 PM »

Quote
Suppose a person drink wine. So drinking wine is Haraam or PROHIBITED in sharia of Islam. So when he read namaaz after drinking wine.. the namaaz which he reads should also falls under PROHIBITION OR HARAAM catagory. This is very simple. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT READING NAMAAZ  ITSELF IS PROHIBITED.
THIS IS THE ACTUAL PROBLEM.
It is Makrooh Tahreemi to pray wearing clothes that have images of living things printed on them: wearing such clothes is prohibited even when not praying.

Now here I am not arguing on the position of namaaz being Makrohoh Tahrimi. I am arguing on the portion of "wearing such clothes is prohibited". When wearing such clothes is PROHIBITED OR HARAAM then HOW CAN THE NAMMAZ FALL UNDER MAKROOH TEHREEMI. According to this reference IT SHOULD ALSO FALL UNDER PROHIBITED OR HARAAM category because the person who is reading Namaaz is wearing a prohibited Shirt.


Brother Ghaws here i m making a final effort to explain things to you. Please read this post carefully.

First understand in ISLAMIC Sharia everything does not fall under two Broad categoreis like Halaal and Haraam,
There are many categories beyond tat also


Not eveything is Farz Not everyhing is Haraam
There is No just Yes or No.

Positive Commondments and Negavtive Commandments have many categories under them like

1. Fard (compulsory)   :::  1. Haraam (Forbidden)
2. Wajib (Imperative)  :::  2. Makrooh Tehrimi (Condemend)
3. Sunnat -e- Mukkadah (Compulsory Recommendation)  :::  3. Isaat (Disapproved)
4. Sunnat Ghari ul Mukkadah(Directory Recommendation) :::  4. Makrooh Tanzihi (Improper)
5. Mustahab (Commendable) If you do it you will b rewarded If you dont do you wont be punished  :::  5. Khilaful Aula (Uncommendable)

Common in both category is Mubaah (Permissible/Indifferent)

Drinking Wine is Haraam hence offering Namaaz while drinking wine can also come in Haraam category.
But wearing clothes with Images of Live creatures is NOT HARAAM its Makhrooh. and Offering Namaaz wearing such clothes come under the second category that Makrooh Tehrimi. which is very close to Haraam but not Haraam like

Examples:
1) Delaying Asr prayer until the sun changes its colour
2) To hasten in offering the various integrals of Salat, such as the two prostrations and sitting in between them
3) The Using of gold or silver utensils for men and women
4) Buying and selling when the call for prayer (adhan) of Jumuah takes place

Ruling: Failure to abstain from such acts necessitates a sin and punishment in the hereafter, though the punishment will be of a lesser degree than that for committing a Haram, and abstinence will merit a reward. The one who rejects it to be unlawful will not come out of the fold of Islam, as opposed to Haram.


So praying with Images of Live Creatures in and Around you comes in Category of Makrooh Not Haraam  the punishment will be of a lesser degree than that for committing a Haram, and abstinence will merit a reward



This is the best i can do brother..

Rest Allah (Subhana wa taaala). and RasoolAllah  sal-lal-lahu alai hi wa sallam knows best.
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ghaws786
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2010, 01:47:45 PM »

Exactly... Now you are talking. This means that the reference quoted was wrong. It should be written as :

It is Makrooh to  pray while wearing clothes with living things printed on them.

Whatever you are explaining about Islamic Sharia.. I have already posted that on my YOUTUBE channel under the same name GHAWS786. You can visit and check that out; you may find other interesting clips as well.

Coming back to the actual question and summing up everything.

1. Praying inside the church is PERMISSIBLE IF CONDITIONS OF PRAYER ARE COMPLETELY MET WITH. It Falls under MUBAAH and NOT HARAAM at all.

2. Anyone who does this; STILL BE CALLED A MUSLIM and does not go out of embit of ISLAM.

Now, my next question would be;

IF the act of praying Inside the church is Mubaah or Permissible and the person still remains Muslim then What's wrong with wishing a NON_MUSLIM on his/her festival? Why should it fall under Prohibited or Haraam category?

Since Wishing a non-Muslim is an act of less intensity than Praying inside the church; Why did our respected MUFTI  SB. declared this to be NON-PERMISSIBLE OR HARAAM? I am referring to the post no. 77 on the topic IS IT GUNAH TO WISH A NON-MUSLIM ON HIS/HER FESTIVAL?

Please bear in mind..I still respect Mufti sb; because of his knowledge and service to Islam. I am ONLY challenging his decision based on the above stated argument. Please Clarify?

Wassalam,
Your Brother IN ISLAM.
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2010, 01:59:21 PM »

There reference quoted was not wrong and its NOT Mubaah to pray with images around you ITS MAKROOH E TEHRIMI..which comes very close to HARAAM..

And your SALAH HAS TO BE REPEATED.

I have explained you in such simple Terms still you are confsuing people dont know why.
Nobody ever said it was HARAAM....

DO NOT PUT WORDS in our MOUTH..
Non permissible does not mean HARAAM.
Nor Does DISLIKE Mean HARAAM..

please go through all the post and you will understand what Dislike and Non permissible mean.


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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2010, 02:03:11 PM »

Really brother i am not understanding your point of view.
why are you trying to confuse and complicate simple things.

First you say you are a student then you challenge a Mufti on his Teachings and Decision...

Do not misinterpret or Insult Mufti Sahab.
By Challenging his view you are insulting him without any reason..

the post clearly says NOT PERMISSIBLE...it does not MEAN HARAAM

Quote
I just spoke with Mufti Mehmood Akhtar Saheb on this matter, as per shariah he said wishing
christmans/diwali is not permissible..........

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Shifa Chishty
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2010, 02:28:36 PM »

pehli baar surhe hain k jaanwar aur insaanon k kapde pehan kar nmaaz padna mubaah hai..yeh makrooh e tehrimi hai aur yeh ahle sunnat wal jamaat ke scholars ne kaha hai..

bhai yeh ghaws786 ki id se jo banda hai pta nai kyon fitne faila rha hai. maine dusre forum par bhi dekha hai k log sunni aur ahle sunnat wal jmaat ka naam lekar ghus jaate hain aur bina sar pair ki baatein karke forum ganda karte hain..

is bande par aaplog khaas nazar rakho yeh sirf logon ko gumrah aur confuse karrha hai  aur kuch nai..

jabki sayed noori, qasmi bhai soldier of islam ne saaf saaf apna opinion dediya jo k bilkul sahi hai
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huma
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 04:39:46 PM »

 I am only so much hearing 'gunah' and the punishment and fear.. why not be a little human and look at it with genuine concern. It is not for punishment we don't do, it is because such things which are not pernissible are exactly so because they take away the intensity of prayer, a prayer which will be distracted by many ideas which will come in the way of a prayer. But, as I said if somebody has, say, worn a printed t-shirt but is very focussed in his prayer and his heart is one with allah ta'ala, he should not be hounded and tortured with words such as gunah, hell-fire.. any good moslem must gently remind him of the fact and check his neeyat, if he is on the wrong i am sure he will correct it, if he is not, then nothing to worry. If he is an informed moslem, then he has his own reasons for doing what he does. The beauty of islam is that it is not by force that things happen but by learning from a discipline of prayer.
Yes, there are issues of debate and these have to be talked about but in a democratic spirit..
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syedfayaz
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2010, 10:07:26 PM »

Assalam-aliikumwarkmatullah

Its all about our Intention/NIYYATH which we do before PRAYER with fear in heart about Allah subhanawatala hoping for acceptence from Allah. We r not hear to say some 1's prayers is accepted or rejeted nor he's not a Muslim if he does so. It might be the situation bcz of which he would hv prayed. Do not waste your time by taking a vidio n simply writing 1 r others view. Plz accept what's right n reject it which is not permisabel to u as a MUSLIM in the shariya.

I am not hear to condome some 1 r sapport some 1.
Plz do forgive me if i heart some 1...

Jazaakallah Khairen

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Ya-Allah
Yooun Dooboun Ishq-e-Nabi (Salallaho Aliwasollum) Me....
K Mujhe Apni Bhi na Khaber Mele...
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2010, 04:56:56 AM »

Walikum Assalaam Wa Rehamtullahe Wa Barkathu.

Subhan Allah...AZZAWAJAL very nice sharing....

Jazak Allahu khair for ....gr8 sharing........

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